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I purchased a pair of Aquiline MPC tire chains last winter for my 3320 John Deere.
I tried them a few times but I had issues with them falling off. (See pictures) I remounted them a few times but I would get a half hour to a hours use and they would gradually ride off my tire. I finally took them off out of frustration and a lack of a warm place to work.
Here's another winter so I figured I would mess with them and see if I can get them to stay on my tires. I have them on nice and tight. I've tried using bungee cords, the spring tensioners, and most recently a chain through steel rings to keep them tight. The chains walk right off my tires with in an hour of light use. It's not that they first get loose and start coming off; when they are walking off the tires they are still tight.
I have chains on the front tires and this is my 4th winter with them. I have had no issues. My old Ford NAA tractor had the ring style chains for the past 11 years without any tensioners and I never had an issue. For the life of me I can not understand why I can't keep these Aquiline MPC chains on the rear of my 3320.
Any ideas on what is wrong? I am out of ideas.
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I've used many tire chains, but none of that design, which to me looks like would encourage them to walk off the tread, especially on those fat industrial tread tires. I've only ever used the "old fashioned" design chains, like the ones you mentioned on your ford, the simple ladder design.
I'd try to find a set like that and sell the the ones you have, if I was in your position. Chains that are the right fit should basically stay in place on their own.
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Three loops of chain for the cross links? :dunno:
I would bet the "tread" loop("s" if 4) must be a link or 2 looser than the side loops.
In my "Pittsburgh" years (prior to 1970), that issue happened if the inside loop was too loose.
BUT, that is for conventional chains.
The tread loops are there to just hold the cross links in place,,
NOT hold the chains tight to the tire.
The only method of installing chains I use now is;
1) deflate the tire some.
2) tightly install the chains.
3) inflate the tire.
4) toss all the bungee straps and springs in the drawer for some other use.
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Have you tried running the chains without any tensioners on the outside of the wheel?
The inside & outside attaching chains need to be the same length.
Lastly can you fit a couple bungee cords on the inside of the wheel without hitting anything? Because it definitely looks like your tensioners are pulling the chains off the tires. Maybe this will help even them out.
CADplans said:
Three loops of chain for the cross links? :dunno:
I would bet the "tread" loop("s" if 4) must be a link or 2 looser than the side loops.
In my "Pittsburgh" years (prior to 1970), that issue happened if the inside loop was too loose.
BUT, that is for conventional chains.
The tread loops are there to just hold the cross links in place,,
NOT hold the chains tight to the tire.The only method of installing chains I use now is;
1) deflate the tire some.
2) tightly install the chains.
3) inflate the tire.
4) toss all the bungee straps and springs in the drawer for some other use.Click to expand...
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They look to big to me, the inside and outside chains need to be shortened quite a bit, then the cross link chains re-spaced. It's a crap ton of work to do but you only have to do it once. Having the special tool will help but I did mine with a chisel, hammer, and a vise.
Watch the videos:
Large Repair Pliar
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I have the Aquiline MPC chains on my 3320 running R4 tires.
It looks like you need to shorten the side chains by a couple of links. The side bars on these chains are also about one link too long. Shortening them is a lot of work and isn't really necessary. I'm on my third season with these. No problems here. Will try to post some photos later.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
OK. Here are a couple of photos from last year.
Just a couple of tips:
Installation instructions are attached as a refresher.
Website link: Aquiline Tire Chains
Aquiline MPC Chain Installation.pdf
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I just installed mine this year (first time as well). What I ended up doing was jacking the rear tires off the ground so I could spin them. This helps if you have a second pair of hands (not necessarily needed but helps). Doing this helps ensure you have the chains on pretty straight and can work them in the lugs. I started by securing the inside then worked outward. Letting some air out as mentioned might help as well when on the ground to get them as snug as possible. Also remember to recheck them after a little test ride. They will naturally find the lowest spot and settle in the groves of the tires and give you more slack and ride off the tires.
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The chain set is to big for the tire and needs to be cut down.
You probably bought the recommended chains for your tire size but that doesn't mean you won't have to cut them down.
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re: aquiline installation issues
Superglidesport said:
I have the Aquiline MPC chains on my 3320 running R4 tires. It looks like you need to shorten the side chains by a couple of links. The side bars on these chains are also about one link too long.
Shortening them is a lot of work and isn't really necessary. I'm on my third season with these. No problems here. Will try to post some photos later.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
OK. Here are a couple of photos from last year.
View attachment 291858
View attachment 291850
Just a couple of tips:
- No need to deflate the tires.
- Jack tractor up from rear drawbar bracket. One side at a time so tire is free to rotate
- Drape the chains squarely over the top of the tire and rotate them on from behind. Loose ends at the bottom.
- Attach the outside diameter connecting links (two links at tire tread)
- Attach the inner side chain
- Attach outer side chain making sure that it matches the inner chain position (count the links)
- Attach the inner and outer loose chain tail to the side chain using the supplied clevis
- Attach your tensioner
Installation instructions are attached as a refresher.
Website link: Aquiline Tire Chains
Click to expand...
Thanks for the responses everyone. I have pretty much followed the steps listed above. The inside and outside chains are adjusted equally the same. As far as tension on the side chains I started with bungee cords and they were not tight at all. I don't think that was the cause of them walking off previously. I have suspected the chains were a bit larg for my tires. I see other people on here have Aquiline MPC chains on their 3320. Did they have to shorten them? I ordered them for a 43x16x20 tire.
My driver side tire I did as some on here suggested and I shortened the side chains equally to see if it would make a difference. It did look much better than the passenger side that I left the way I bought them. Both chains walked off the tires equally at the same time.
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I also have the Aqualine chains on my 2520.
Mine are a bit too big for my tires also but I made them work. As said above I raised the tire off the floor and methodically put them on and keep them straight. I roll the tire around and around and keep moving the chains to be perfectly centered on the tire. I have both inner and outer side chains on their tightest position and the are still a bit loose. What I did to keep them on was use a bungee cord as a tensioner but made it really tight. Mine never came off but they worked themselves around too much.
I thought about shortening them - but my tires are about 1/2 worn with ~450 hours. I was afraid to shorten them in the case I get new tires someday. I am fairly confident that with new tires they will fit perfectly as the lugs will be much higher.
Try getting your tensioners tight. Using the bungee cord I got it so tight I thought I was going to snap it. Yeah - kind of dangerous as KennyD found out - but with it that tight they are staying put now.
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The R4's on my 3320 are 15-19.
5's but you could also have 43 x 16-20's on your machine depending upon the year. I ordered my Aquiline MPC's to fit the 15-19.5's and they were a bit large. As mentioned I had to shorten the side chains a few links and could have also removed a link from each side bar.
herbertperform said:
I ordered them for a 43x16x20 tire.
Click to expand...
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I probably would have, maybe 2, or the side hooks would not hang correctly.
Of course you need to do this first before you look at shortening the side chains.
Superglidesport said:
The R4's on my 3320 are 15-19.5's but you could also have 43 x 16-20's on your machine depending upon the year. I ordered my Aquiline MPC's to fit the 15-19.
5's and they were a bit large. As mentioned I had to shorten the side chains a few links and could have also removed a link from each side bar.
Click to expand...
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Astute observation. I did the calculation using my friend Pi. We came to the conclusion that I shouldn't have removed those couple of side links if I intended to shorten the side bars.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi
Gizmo2 said:
I probably would have, maybe 2.
Of course you need to do this first before you look at shortening the side chains.Click to expand...
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Gizmo2 said:
I probably would have, maybe 2, or the side hooks would not hang correctly.
Of course you need to do this first before you look at shortening the side chains.Click to expand...
Superglidesport said:
Astute observation. I did the calculation using my friend Pi. We came to the conclusion that I shouldn't have removed those couple of side links if I intended to shorten the side bars.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi
Click to expand...
Cross chain shortening becomes a PITA, I added a comment to my post (See Above).
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With these chains even more so. It isn't just removing a cross chain - actually I don't know how one would do it the way they are designed.
Gizmo2 said:
Cross chain shortening becomes a PITA, I added a comment to my post (See Above).
Click to expand...
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I was referring to shortening the links that attach to the side chains. I didn't mean to infer that the cross bars should be shortened.
Shortening up the links would increase the diameter of the side chain circumference at the sidewall. This would assist with installation and distribution of the spreader tension.
coaltrain said:
With these chains even more so. It isn't just removing a cross chain - actually I don't know how one would do it the way they are designed.
View attachment 291994
Click to expand.
..
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OK. When talking about shortening regular chains, I am used to shortening the length of the outer and inner chain - the ones that you clasp whem installing. When doing that with regular chains it usually involved removing a cross chain.
I never really thought about how to shorten these chains - made my head hurt when I tried.....
Superglidesport said:
In was referring to shortening the links that attach to the side chains. I didn't mean to infer that the cross bars should be shortened.
Shortening up the links would increase the diameter of the side chain circumference at the sidewall. This would assist with installation and distribution of the spreader tension.
Click to expand...
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Shortening the cross chains is where the tool that KennyD referenced in post #5 comes into play.
It makes opening (and closing) the connection links much easier. I used a hammer and chisel to open the links on my old chains when I had to remove cross bars. It was not fun and broke maybe one leg on half of the links I forced opened.
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I have the tool. It was worth the $100
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
56Nine said:
Shortening the cross chains is where the tool that KennyD referenced in post #5 comes into play.
It makes opening (and closing) the connection links much easier. I used a hammer and chisel to open the links on my old chains when I had to remove cross bars. It was not fun and broke maybe one leg on half of the links I forced opened.
Click to expand...
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I have the X-large tool with the 33" handles and on the 3/8" chains it still seems to take two men and a boy to open and close those links.
herbertperform said:
I have the tool. It was worth the $100
Click to expand...
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Loggers make extensive use of harvesters and feller bunchers for felling trees, depending on the harvesting technology chosen. Modern forest giants are filled with digital sensors, on-board PCs and other high-tech elements. But the saw set is primarily responsible for the sawing process itself. Its timely and proper maintenance is the key to the smooth operation of equipment and efficient logging.
It is no coincidence that one of the important stages in the competition of forestry operators for harvester operators is the assembly of the saw unit and its installation on the harvester head. And at the Oregon Pro Skills Competition, operators compete in their ability to masterfully assemble, manufacture, sharpen a harvester chain and repair a saw bar.
Equipment for logging is by no means cheap, and if earlier operators squeezed the resource out of it, as they say, “for all the money”: they sawed until the chain broke or the sprocket flew off, then today in prioritizing respect for equipment.
Users have learned in practice that an aggressive operating style is not beneficial, as it leads to additional costs for the replacement of components, increased fuel consumption and increases the risk of injury to the operator.
“A saw system is a complex organism: various mechanisms are involved in the sawing process, driven by hydraulics, moving at great speed. It is the well-coordinated work of all components of this system that determines the final result - the volume of harvested wood, and the choice of high-quality and proven components can reduce harvesting costs, ”emphasizes the head of hydraulic equipment, saw products and anti-skid caterpillars at Traktorodetal Dmitry Zavadsky.
During the shift, the operator must visually monitor the condition of the saw chain, bar and drive sprocket. All these elements make up the saw set, during the operation of which there is one unshakable rule: do not combine old and new equipment in operation.
For example, on a new sprocket, an old saw chain will not work as efficiently as, say, a new chain on an old bar.
“During a visual check, special attention should be paid to the wear of the working elements and the fixation of all mechanisms of the saw unit, as well as the absence of any leaks. Regular checks will allow timely detection of damage, wear and the quality of fixation of all components of the saw set,” recalls Nikolai Filonov, chief instructor of Ponsse LLC.
Each manufacturer has its own requirements for the life of components. For example, according to Waratah (a joint venture between John Deere and Outokummun Metalli), the design life of a saw chain is 300 cubic meters of wood, and that of a guide bar is 2,000 cubic meters. If the guide grooves of the drive sprocket are worn by more than 0.6 mm, it is recommended to replace it.
“We advise you to change the saw chain every 4 hours, as well as enable the sawing statistics function in the harvester's on-board computer, then the measuring system will send notifications of increased sawing time and the need to replace the chain to increase the performance of the unit.
After breaking the chain again, it is better not to use it, ”says Alexander Kislukhin, Waratah territorial manager.
When checking the chain, the manufacturer recommends paying attention to the correct installation of connecting and drive links, identify broken or cracked cutting links and their edges, as well as drive links that have burrs, cracked or bent. The operator should be alerted by severe abrasion, excessive chain wear, or marks that indicate tire or sprocket wear. Also, the operator should check the quality of the rivet connections: if the rivets can be turned with your fingers, then the connection is weak.
“The service life of saw bars and chains depends both on the correct operation of the entire sawing system and the conditions in which the machine operates (diameter and type of wood, level of deposition), as well as on the correct maintenance of components. Regular inspection and maintenance will help improve cutting performance and component life.
In particular, it is necessary to check their tension, sharpness, fastenings, operation of the chain lubrication system, oil level in the tank. The choice of high-quality and proven components that have proven themselves in difficult operating conditions will also help to increase the resource, ”recalls Dmitry Zavadsky.
How often the saw chain should be sharpened depends on the operating conditions of the equipment. In general, manufacturers recommend doing this after each use of the saw set, at least once per shift.
Nikolay Filonov also recommends carrying out this procedure after the appearance of obvious factors indicating that the equipment needs maintenance. These include the appearance of small sawdust, a decrease in sawing speed, and smoke during operation.
“After 5-8 sharpenings of the chain with a round file with a diameter of 5.5 mm, it is necessary to check and adjust (if necessary) the height of the cutting depth gauge of the chain cutting links.
The height of the cut depth gauge of all chain cutting links should be the same - 1.25 mm from the edge of the cutting tooth, ”Oregon gives such advice.
“To maintain sawing performance, the condition of all chain elements, including connecting links and rivets, must be observed. They should not have cracks, deformations and have freedom of movement. To troubleshoot a chain, we recommend using a special template that will allow you to evaluate its suitability for further work,” Alexander Kislukhin shares his experience.
“Chains must always be sharpened, they must be “leveled” with a file when checking. But often operators do not do this, but simply install a new chain when the old one has become dull. In fact, it should be installed in the machine after damage to the cutting set - for example, when reducing the length of one or more cutting teeth, ”a Traktorodetal representative shares his experience.
The main attention is paid to the driving elements of the saw set, but it is also better to check the driven chain, like the driven sprocket, after installation for play and free rotation in order to avoid failures in their operation.
The process of caring for the elements of the saw set has seasonal characteristics. In particular, the sharpening angle of the saw chain varies depending on the temperature conditions. As for the tire, in summer it is recommended to clean it from sawdust and dirt daily, and in winter (at low temperatures) - not earlier than after 3-4 hours of operation.
“During the period of hydration and low temperatures, special attention must be paid to the lubrication of the saw system. It is important that the oil freely gets to the tire, for this it is necessary to increase the intensity of its supply. Also, when choosing chain oil, you should pay attention to the temperature regime: depending on the season, it must have the necessary viscosity so that it is not very thick in winter and too liquid in summer.
In addition, the oil must be clean. In no case should you use the so-called mining - settled hydraulic, machine or transmission oil with operating time.
There are always wear particles in such oil, which will inevitably cause the oil pump to fail.
Oil for use in a chain saw mechanism must have good adhesion (stickiness), just this property is not found in conventional products: motor, industrial and others,” recommends Dmitry Zavadsky.
When checking the guide bar before use, pay attention to whether the groove and the oil supply hole are cleaned, whether there are bevels in the grooves, which indicate wear of the element. If available, you can turn the tire over and use it in this form for some more time. But Waratah experts emphasize that this is just a temporary solution that ensures uniform wear.
“The condition of the rails of the bar, especially the lower working part, is monitored when changing the chain and cleaning the groove of the bar. In the event of a burr, a second tire is installed, and the one requiring repair at the end of the shift is taken to the locksmith site, ”the Oregon recommendations say.
According to Traktorodetal, weekly deburring of the guide bar is very important to reduce the chance of guide bar wear and chipping.
Inspection and maintenance of the saw set by the operator is an important part of his daily work. But more complex maintenance procedures are best left to qualified service specialists.
The key to success at this stage is a well-equipped workplace, which includes several machines: riveting, riveting and sharpening. You can equip it with a tire straightening press or use a conventional vice for this: with their help you can deburr and grind the guide rails, as well as file the cutting chain links on the tire installed in a vice, or use it when repairing the groove of the tire (spread apart in case pinching or squeeze in case of splitting).
“We also recommend that loggers separate tire and chain repair areas from high pressure hose (HP) repair areas, as chain and tire repairs involve a lot of metal chips.
Its entry into the high-pressure hoses can lead to the failure of the components of the hydraulic system in the future, ”the Waratah representative clarifies.
As additional equipment, Dmitry Zavadsky recommends using gauges to check the thickness of the grinding wheel, chain elongation, as well as stones for straightening discs, files and hoods to keep the working area clean.
Untimely maintenance of the saw set and its incorrect operation can lead to deformation and failure of other components of the forest machine, the repair of which will require more serious investments. In the practice of Nikolai Filonov from the Ponce company, for example, there were cases when a violation of the operation of the saw mechanism led to the failure of the hydraulic system: metal chips got into it, and the system had to be repaired.
“Improperly sharpening the chain leads to increased sawing time and increased load on the saw hydraulic motor, as a result of which it can fail.
In addition, if the chain is not sharpened correctly, premature wear of the drive sprocket and saw bar occurs. The result is reduced sawing performance and increased consumption of all components. A violation of the chain maintenance conditions can cause it to break and the links to fly out. In particular, the reason may be the use of inappropriate chain repair kits, ”recalls Alexander Kislukhin.
According to the expert, to ensure the safety of sawing, it is important not to forget to monitor the condition of the chain catcher and protection against flying out of its elements installed on the harvester head. And in case of wear or loss of components, he strongly recommends replacing them with new ones in a timely manner.
“Things like this happen in the practice of foresters: either a worn drive star, which stretches the saw chains very quickly and makes them unusable; or running without the guide bar retaining pins, causing the shank to break; or lack of oil supply, from which the saw bar will “burn out”.
